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i have the opportunity to get a 2018 Kodiak 700 EPS with the 708cc motor and see the 2019 offers a 686cc motor has the 708 been a unreliable motor and going with the 686 be a netter choice .
 

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The 708 is a fine motor. Yamaha went to the 686 for reasons that no one really knows. One of them was that they just wanted to stock one motor for their larger machines.

I would get either one that you can get the best deal on.
 

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I know that when Yamaha went from the 686 to the Subaru 708 the HP and torque were both increased.

Not sure what happened power wise when they returned to the 686.
I've been very happy with my 708, but I only have about 200 miles on it.
 

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The 708 is only a fine motor for those who've had no troubles with it. There have been oil consumption issues with what I would consider far too many of them. Do your research on it before buying. Join grizzly central and ask about the 708 before buying. There is far more traffic on that site than this one. You are in a good buyers position right now. The 708 was used in 3 yrs of the griz and Kodiak so there will be plenty of feedback available, both good and bad. My 16 uses some oil when plowing snow. Not a lot but it does. It is still a low mileage vehicle and in my experience, oil consumption doesn't get better, it gets worse with use. My situation is not unique and there have been owners with far worse issues. Do your homework and good luck.
 

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I went through the upper-end rebuild on my 2016 700. Every dealer including the one that rebuilt it claimed to have no knowledge of why that engine had problems or even acknowledge it. My machine was occasionally blowing LARGE clouds of blue smoke on start-up. Not every start up, maybe only one-in 10. Two dealers could not duplicate it. The third one told me to me to come get it. They started it to move it and finally it blew large blue clouds of smoke. Top-end was rebuilt. Yamaha picked up 2/3's of a 2000 dollar bill. Still pisses me off. Here is what I have been able to surmise; The tsunami took out whatever division of Yamaha that built the 686. They used a Subaru motor (708) until the plant was back up and producing, hence the switch back to the 686. Some valve guides in some 708's were bad. The valve stems wore the guides, allowing oil into the combustion chamber, thus the oil on start-up. Yamaha knew about the problem early but never acknowledged it. Not sure it I'll ever buy another one.
 

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Rondo, it's terrible how you had to eat some of that bill. I don't blame you for not buying another one of their products.
 

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The 708 is only a fine motor for those who've had no troubles with it. There have been oil consumption issues with what I would consider far too many of them. Do your research on it before buying. Join grizzly central and ask about the 708 before buying. There is far more traffic on that site than this one. You are in a good buyers position right now. The 708 was used in 3 yrs of the griz and Kodiak so there will be plenty of feedback available, both good and bad. My 16 uses some oil when plowing snow. Not a lot but it does. It is still a low mileage vehicle and in my experience, oil consumption doesn't get better, it gets worse with use. My situation is not unique and there have been owners with far worse issues. Do your homework and good luck.
this is where the problem gets blown way out of proportion making it look way worse than it really is. not just this 708, but anything these days.
millions of 708 were sold worldwide , millions with zero problems, but in this age we have the internet ...
a few thousand of us are purest, living and breathing the forums, ....info, reviews, next cool mod, helping others ect.
then there are the couple hundred with the real problems requiring major repairs.
not many purposly come to the forums just to say how great the bike is, no, they are out enjoying it.... but a high percentage (I bet +90%) of the people with major issues will hit up the forums for help and to vent their frustrations. (I know I have done it lots of times myself).

so a few hundred issues among a fuw thousand forum members....yes thats a huge problem..... but that same few hundred problems among the millions actually sold, not such a huge problem now.

if the problem was huge, yamaha would have issued a recall, mandatory or voluntarly.

if you do research it, the issue is about 99% first year, 2016 bikes, not surprisig at all.
 

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this is where the problem gets blown way out of proportion making it look way worse than it really is. not just this 708, but anything these days.
millions of 708 were sold worldwide , millions with zero problems, but in this age we have the internet ...
a few thousand of us are purest, living and breathing the forums, ....info, reviews, next cool mod, helping others ect.
then there are the couple hundred with the real problems requiring major repairs.
not many purposly come to the forums just to say how great the bike is, no, they are out enjoying it.... but a high percentage (I bet +90%) of the people with major issues will hit up the forums for help and to vent their frustrations. (I know I have done it lots of times myself).

so a few hundred issues among a fuw thousand forum members....yes thats a huge problem..... but that same few hundred problems among the millions actually sold, not such a huge problem now.

if the problem was huge, yamaha would have issued a recall, mandatory or voluntarly.

if you do research it, the issue is about 99% first year, 2016 bikes, not surprisig at all.
That really puts things into perspective!
Bravo!
 

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That really puts things into perspective!
Bravo!
I can't take full credit, i was researching a lawn tractor for my friend's dad a few years ago, and the one he wanted had lots of bad reviews. It was a guy in a John Deere forum that explained it.... made sense. in the end, bought that tractor and it's been trouble free for 9+ years now....
 

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Rondo, it's terrible how you had to eat some of that bill. I don't blame you for not buying another one of their products.
Not completely ruling another one out, but I'd sure contact corporate and remind them of the money it cost me.
 

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this is where the problem gets blown way out of proportion making it look way worse than it really is. not just this 708, but anything these days.
millions of 708 were sold worldwide , millions with zero problems, but in this age we have the internet ...
a few thousand of us are purest, living and breathing the forums, ....info, reviews, next cool mod, helping others ect.
then there are the couple hundred with the real problems requiring major repairs.
not many purposly come to the forums just to say how great the bike is, no, they are out enjoying it.... but a high percentage (I bet +90%) of the people with major issues will hit up the forums for help and to vent their frustrations. (I know I have done it lots of times myself).

so a few hundred issues among a fuw thousand forum members....yes thats a huge problem..... but that same few hundred problems among the millions actually sold, not such a huge problem now.

if the problem was huge, yamaha would have issued a recall, mandatory or voluntarly.

if you do research it, the issue is about 99% first year, 2016 bikes, not surprisig at all.
It is a huge problem when I have to shell out 700.00 dollars on a machine that is less than a year old. Yamaha knew about the problem. The dealers knew about it. Three of them ignored me until the problem duplicated in front of their eyes. Then the service manager fessed up to the issue. How many of the "millions" of people had problems, went to a dealer who then told them to go away and never pursued it further? I think your spit-balling of a "few hundred" issues is way off base. DO I have numbers to back it up? No. But the fact that Corporate fessed to the dealer who fessed to me makes me think the problem was pretty big. Do you or anyone have sales figures on how many machines were built??? Again, I think "millions" is way off base. A quick google search gives 260K as the figure for ATV/UTV's sold in 2015. Another site quotes 71K 700's sold in 2017. Millions of Kodiaks sold?? Not so much....
 

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It is a huge problem when I have to shell out 700.00 dollars on a machine that is less than a year old. Yamaha knew about the problem. The dealers knew about it. Three of them ignored me until the problem duplicated in front of their eyes. Then the service manager fessed up to the issue. How many of the "millions" of people had problems, went to a dealer who then told them to go away and never pursued it further? I think your spit-balling of a "few hundred" issues is way off base. DO I have numbers to back it up? No. But the fact that Corporate fessed to the dealer who fessed to me makes me think the problem was pretty big. Do you or anyone have sales figures on how many machines were built??? Again, I think "millions" is way off base. A quick google search gives 260K as the figure for ATV/UTV's sold in 2015. Another site quotes 71K 700's sold in 2017. Millions of Kodiaks sold?? Not so much....
Yes, I was thinking the "million" was way off. I'll add this, Yamaha wouldn't admit to issues at all until the 18's were coming out. My dealer played dumb when I first brought it up. Although (after testing )they say mine doesn't have the guide issue, a couple of 16's in our club failed testing. Haven't heard yet how those owners were dealt with . i believe there is another bike with the smoking issue but I think it's a grizzly and a 17 model. One of the two 16's is also a gizzly.
 

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I sold my 16 after having starting issues, and I understand the issue was a starter. I felt it was going to be potentially expensive to fix, and after the recall on the decompression spring and other running issues, I sold it at a major loss. I did buy an 18 after I needed one and felt the price was good. So far it is doing well, dealer prep was horrible, but I am getting used to poor service.
 

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I sold my 16 after having starting issues, and I understand the issue was a starter. I felt it was going to be potentially expensive to fix, and after the recall on the decompression spring and other running issues, I sold it at a major loss. I did buy an 18 after I needed one and felt the price was good. So far it is doing well, dealer prep was horrible, but I am getting used to poor service.
You'll never be disappointed if you have low expectations for dealers. :)

I don't trust em!

I'll twist my own wrenches, and when it's done it's done.
 

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Yes, I was thinking the "million" was way off. I'll add this, Yamaha wouldn't admit to issues at all until the 18's were coming out. My dealer played dumb when I first brought it up. Although (after testing )they say mine doesn't have the guide issue, a couple of 16's in our club failed testing. Haven't heard yet how those owners were dealt with . i believe there is another bike with the smoking issue but I think it's a grizzly and a 17 model. One of the two 16's is also a gizzly.
obviously they aren't actual numbers, it to give perspective to the point.
 

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It is a huge problem when I have to shell out 700.00 dollars on a machine that is less than a year old. Yamaha knew about the problem. The dealers knew about it. Three of them ignored me until the problem duplicated in front of their eyes. Then the service manager fessed up to the issue. How many of the "millions" of people had problems, went to a dealer who then told them to go away and never pursued it further? I think your spit-balling of a "few hundred" issues is way off base. DO I have numbers to back it up? No. But the fact that Corporate fessed to the dealer who fessed to me makes me think the problem was pretty big. Do you or anyone have sales figures on how many machines were built??? Again, I think "millions" is way off base. A quick google search gives 260K as the figure for ATV/UTV's sold in 2015. Another site quotes 71K 700's sold in 2017. Millions of Kodiaks sold?? Not so much....

I don't blame you for being pissed having to pay that.
under a year, that should still be warranty covered. unless your dealer only offers 6 months ...my dealer is 1year minimum then extended if you buy it

1 little tip if your in this situation again, mention that you will be contacting the BBB (better business bureau)... watch how fast it changes in your favor ...
 

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I doubt that the BBB would do very much, they are pretty much a joke since they have no power to do anything that would punish the business except to place a bad review on them.
 

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I sold my 16 after having starting issues, and I understand the issue was a starter. I felt it was going to be potentially expensive to fix, and after the recall on the decompression spring and other running issues, I sold it at a major loss. I did buy an 18 after I needed one and felt the price was good. So far it is doing well, dealer prep was horrible, but I am getting used to poor service.
There's no excuse for poor service. My dealer is horrible. PM me if you want to know where NOT to buy a machine in WA. They didn't even know how a front transaxle worked on a manual-engager. I pulled the right axle to have a torn boot (right inner) replaced. Upon re-installing I spun the axle around and it ratcheted, but at a smooth, controlled, almost "metered" ratcheting, soft kinda-like. The dealer said that was not normal, and it was gonna be a minimum of 4 hours labor to "trouble shoot". I'm not a mechanic, but I thought it might have something to do with the limited-slip clutch. Removed left axle and the bearing in the diff spun freely, pulled the right back out and I couldn't spin it by hand at all. I scoured the internet, nothing. Finally spoke with a Service Manager who knew his ****. He said that was normal. On an electric-lock machine both axles will spin freely. Put mine back together, operates normally. I may get booted from the forum for this, but I'm getting tired of fucking dumb-asses wanting to take my money. Man up and admit what you don't know. Oh wait, what's the matter with me? That's un-American.
 

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I doubt that the BBB would do very much, they are pretty much a joke since they have no power to do anything that would punish the business except to place a bad review on them.
it's not what they will do, its what they can do

you mention the BBB and fear mode kicks in, they don't want a bad rating as it effects everything ...their business insurance being the big one
 
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