[Tirill]

On Monday i picked up my brand new Kodiak 700 from dealer. The weather where I live in Sweden is now pretty cold, and around -10C (14 deg F). The ATV have faced big problems to start and I had to change battery after 1 day. Next problem was an quite strong backfiring during and start attempt. It initiated an terrible razzling noise from the starting gear when engaged, but once started ithe engine did run smoothly.

Yesterday I tried to start it agan in same temp, and now another small "bang" and the starter motor only runs without to engage the crankshaft. As far as I understand must something serious happen. Unfortunately I live far from dealer and service, but I guess I must take it back for inspection where I bought it.

Does anyone have any comments to above?? Have someone heard of something similar....? An misfire that ruins the whole starting mechanism on a 2 day old ATV.....
I dont understand a clue

I understand that some of these "big bore" engines could be difficult to start in cold weatehr, particulary as new, but breaks the whole starting transmission down....that a bit hard....

 

[Rollin]

Tirill, welcome to the forum and congrats on your new Kodiak.

First, the cold temperature is not that extreme, we have members on here that are running those Kodiaks in Northern Canada and with proper care and keeping a charged battery there should be no problem starting. I have started my Kodiak as low as 9 F. It struggles a bit but starts nevertheless. For cold winter riding some are changing their oil to a 5w40 or 0w40 . I still have the 10w40 and it's ok. The fact that your engine is brand new and not broken in yet maybe it's a factor in hard start. DO NOT rev the engine while it's cold.

It sounds like the starter pinion or ring gear or something around that area failed, no home repairs...
To sum it up, I think the best option for you is to take it back to the dealer and have it looked at and repaired under warranty, whatever happened with your new engine can't be good...let them fix it right and for free!

 

[Primethious]

I own a Victory motorcycle and they can have cold start issues like you have experienced. On them the problem is the starter clutch...it's a one way sprague that allows the bike starter to be engaged at all times without grinding and if there is a backfire on a cold day during startup as you let go of the starter button it can damage or destroy the sprague. If the sprague died then the starter would turn, but the engine would not.
One workaround for it was to apply a small amount of throttle during startup and never to release the start button until a couple seconds after the engine was running...then as with any engine do a good 5-10 minutes of warmup.

I'm curious to see what failed on your bike so please let us know once the dealership fixes it for free.

 

[KSNL85]

The same thing happened to me after I bought my Kodiak. When I bought mine it was November, and the dealership used the factory spec'd oil which is 20w50. When it got cold a month later, I went out and tried to fire it up, it had trouble turning over with the cold thick oil, followed by a big backfire and a big bang inside the engine. That big bang was the idler gear inside the starter clutch, it blew it to pieces. Sounds like the same thing is happening to you.

 

[Tirill]

KSNL85

Tnx a lot for the answer. Very interesting if you have experienced the same trouble in more or less the same way.
This gives me of course the chance to forward a few follow up questions:


1. Have U any idea how cold it was when the "disaster" happen??
2. Did U only change the oil type to get it working again after it was repaired?
3. I submit an drawing on the starter gear device? Do you have any idea of what part specificity that was broken down??
4. Even if I will hand it over to the dealer, and luckily he is an big and well reputed, I am a bit worried about the repair.
I have a feeling that it might be metal debris and chaff inside the engine based upon the scenario. Do U know if this did happen to your engine?

 

[KSNL85]

KSNL85

Tnx a lot for the answer. Very interesting if you have experienced the same trouble in more or less the same way.
This gives me of course the chance to forward a few follow up questions:


1. Have U any idea how cold it was when the "disaster" happen??
2. Did U only change the oil type to get it working again after it was repaired?
3. I submit an drawing on the starter gear device? Do you have any idea of what part specificity that was broken down??
4. Even if I will hand it over to the dealer, and luckily he is an big and well reputed, I am a bit worried about the repair.
I have a feeling that it might be metal debris and chaff inside the engine based upon the scenario. Do U know if this did happen to your engine?

It was actually the morning of Superbowl Sunday last year so I can look up the temperature haha. It was -14°C the morning that it happened. The drawing you have doesn't look like the drawing for the starter clutch I have been looking at here:

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/atv/2016/kodiak-700-eps-4wd-yfm70kpxgg/starter-clutch

In this drawing it is part #3 or #5. All I know is they replaced one of the idler gears, I'm not sure one. There was a bit of metal debris inside but they cleaned it all out, replaced the part and replaced the oil with 10w40. I haven't had an issue since then. I used to have to push the start button twice like a lot of others with 2016 Grizzly and Kodiaks but since then it always fires up on the first push. I hope this helps.

 

[Tirill]

Ok, tnx for all good comments here..
I have been in contact with the dealer now and of course the result will be that I must start the painstaking process to bring the ATV to his shop.
As Ice on the cake I live on an small island here in Sweden and the second part of the journey is by boat. Luckily there is no ice on the sea for the moment.

The first part was behind my small tractor and the last part will be with car trailer 100 miles.....The whole process will take around 2 days each way.....Sometimes it is good to be retired and not be in a hurry.....

 

[Tirill]

Just to mention....The dealer called me 2 days ago and told me they have agreed with Yamaha general agent to change out the WHOLE MOTOR....OMG....Well, that sound that occured was not nice, but a complete new engine after 2 hours of running time, thats a bit confusing.
Well, anyhow I have to wait 3-4 weeks until this process is fulfilled and then we will see. I will post another thread of an related issue to this happening soon....

 

[JimP]

Well, while not enjoyable it is nice that it happened early in its life and not down the road where you would be responsible for the replacement.

I once heard many year ago that quite a few engines failed on first start up which didn't make it very assuring to the one that was buying a vehicle.

Keep us posted.

 

[Primethious]

It's really nice to see Yamaha stepping up and replacing the engine from the get go.

In the past I've talked to a couple guys that had engines go bad on an new bikes, and they got the long run around and an engine rebuild.
A complete new engine is as good as it can get.
Kudos to Yamaha!

 

[Tirill]

Yes Primethious and JimP, I can just agree with both of U. It was in all the sadness and anger good it happend now and not ia a year or 3. (the warranty on these machines in Sweden is 60 month=5 years)
The the discussion had then been inevitable that "what have YOU done that caused this...etc etc) This discussion can be a bit annoying.....

Yes, I was maybe prepared (and here U have no choise in Sweden) to accept an rebuild of the engine. Even if U dont like it, the consumer laws here says that you must accept it as long as it is "professional done"
But I will defenatley sleep better with the knowledge that they have shifted the whole engine to an brand new one.

The only sad thing is that I will never know what did actually happen in there....As have worked with motors in small and big for more then 50 years, I wil not get the answer how the inside in the motor looked and what have happend.....They will just not tell U....

 

[Primethious]

If one snap ring inside it wasn't set properly the whole thing can go to crap really fast.
With Subaru making the engines Yamaha may have just mailed it back to them so they could dissect it and try to see what caused the issue, but I'm with you I'd really like to know what happened.

 

[Tirill]

Soo my friends on both side the Atlantic. Last week I got my Kodiak 2018 back from the dealer, with an brand new engine. I did also get some information that amazes me a bit from the mechanic guys.
After they had disassembled the engine they concluded with som broken gearwheels within the starting device. Tome teeth where actually missing and laying on the bottom of this compartment...
But their generous offer of supplying a complete new engine was not due to this, this problem was repairable...
No, the prime reason for an new engine was that the crankshaft itself had got an real "hit" and when measured on the flywheel with indicator clock the whole flywheel was misaligned with 8/10 of an mm. Eg the whole crank was "blown".
Ok, how could this happen during careful handling during an starting attempt in -10 degC ??
I also got the information that there were some more machines in Scandinavia that have suffered from this disaster recently.
Well, I am astonished to say the least. Now the basic instructions from the dealer was that I shall be extremely accurate to always have an thin winter oil during low temps. Also some other advice like never try to start with an bad battery etc.

I have an feeling that maybe Yamaha have come to the end of the road with these enormous single cylinder machines, and within a year or three we will finally see the long awaited big V-Engine to take up the competition with the North American brands.

I am very much surprised that it is so few reports of similar problems in this forum, but a big number that reports good and reliable winter use of their machines in far lower temps them what I experience here. Can there be engines from both Yamaha and Subaru on the market?? And one type is more vulnerable then the other type.


For me it will be tricky to change the oil 2 times a year, so I will lokk into the possibility of an block heater system, something I will start a thread of in the near future. I will just search what is written on this topic here first...

 

[TRW]

My starter seems to have failed, with unlimited battery available it will not turn the engine over, more than a second, the it quits. I have the lights on while the starter is trying to turn, and they stay lit at 90 percent. Anyone care to offer advice, the starter has always had a whine with it cranks. This is a low hour 2016 Kodiak. I thought it was the battery, but it is not.

 

[TRW]

Just a follow up, I am now told that this is likely a decompression spring issue. I think this was the issue repaired under warranty recall, that never got much attention. It was done, but now is back. Anyone having issues with this?

 

[duke50]

I hope this issue has been resolved in the new 2019 686 engine

 

[TRW]

Sure would be nice if you or we had the analysis on what all happened, and what led to the new engine being installed. I am guessing you don't have this machine back yet, good luck with it.

 

[Tirill]

TRW
Was the last comment ment for me??

I got my machine back in March, and have used it now and then since that. I have 28 hours on the meter now
It works as intended, but of course I an scared everytime I start it that something similar shall happen again.

I will install an block heater in a few weeks time that I have bought. An hose heater for the cooling water.
In addition I have an quite thin synthetic oil in it 10-40W.
So I hope I will not happen again. Particulary since I live so remote, it is a really big project to bring it to the dealer, many days work....

But since my breakdown last spring Yamaha have withdrawned the whole 709 engine without any comments or reason, and replaced it with the old 686 engine.
I cant interpetate in any other way then one.....
Issue will contine I guess.......

 

[TRW]

Yes, I apologize for my question, as I missed your major explanation. Very interesting story, and makes me wonder about this engine. I have an 84 500 CC Honda Magna that has 4 cylinders, and while that is some level of overkill, one big pounding piston seems like a hard way to make power. Good luck and thanks for the follow up!

 

[TRW]

Here is the follow up on my starting situation, the Starter was bad, and it continued to get worse and now replaced it works fine. I did sell this machine, but it is a good machine. I do think the new engine is a good move.