[Wingnut]

Greetings All,

I'm new to the Kodiak 700 Forum, but I just purchased a new 2021 Kodiak 700 EPS, and I'm curious to see if others have any trouble routinely starting there Kodiaks?

I'll start by saying that I live in relatively cold country (really cold in recent days!), and I'm hoping that's at the heart of my problem, but even at the dealership, which was located in a considerably warmer climate, this particular Kodiak seemed a bit finnicky when it came to starting and idling. For example, it took the salesman five to six cycles before it would eventually start and idle, and when it finally did, it seemed a bit rough at idle, with the odor of a somewhat rich fuel mixture.

Given these circumstances, what do some of you other Kodiak owners feel? Should I be concerned about it? Are the Yamaha (Grizzly/Kodiak models), generally problematic in this regard, even in warmer climates? Is it likely to be related to the fuel injection system? Basically, do you think I might have an issue with this particular unit?

Many thanks!

 

[JimP]

For some reason these machines don't like to start up and run the first time that they are started when cold.

Mine will start and then die within seconds and then once it is restarted it will run all day long. Why? I have no idea.

I tried this winter to let the fuel pump pressurize completely before I tried to start, this seamed to work a couple of times but I am right back to starting it twice when it is cold.

Others have had the same problem and I don't know if anyone has found a solution to it.

On the fuel smell and having to try multiple times that may be your Kodiak but I haven't heard of anyone having that type of a problem. But then you have the 686 motor so there could be some different fuel strategies in the fuel management programing.

 

[Wingnut]

Thanks for your reply, Jim.

Having a reputation of not starting or running well when cold doesn't bode well for a machine that was intended for use in plowing snow! With barely 0.7 hours on this thing, its still rather early in the game for me, but I guess I should have done my homework and a bit more research on other brands, before jumping willy-nilly on a Yamaha purchase? Makes me wonder if maybe ALL if the newer fuel injected ATV's behave this way?

 

[JimP]

I'd head back to the dealer and talk to the mechanic and not the salesman.

The more that I think about it what you are experiencing is not normal and needs to be check out and shouldn't of been sold in that condition.

If your dealer tries to blow you off take it to a different one.

Yamaha ATV's are pretty much bullet proof but some make it through the inspections where they should of caught the problem before it hit the showroom floor.

 

[Wingnut]

Thanks again, Jim.

I'll say this much . . . It's exceptionally cold here right now (well below zero), even in the garage (probably no more than 4-5 degrees above zero), so I want to be fair. In addition, I don't want to be impulsive, because doing so has gotten me into trouble in the past, but the truth is, $10,000 is a King's ransom in my view, for a machine that won't even start regularly. So I'll admit that I am on-edge a bit.

As for the dealer of origin? Much too far away to return there, but it's supposed to warm-up considerably this next week, so in the meantime, I'm gonna trickle charge the battery to make sure it's fully charged, and see what happens this next week. If it warms-up this next week, and I replace the fuel and spark plug, and I still have trouble, then I'll definitely run it into a local Yamaha dealer for a warranty review.

Thanks again.

 

[JimP]

It gets quite cold where I am here in Colorado and below zero quite often when I jump on my Kodiak to plow snow.

If nothing else call the dealership and talk to the service writer and see what he says.

That raw fuel smell is what makes me wonder just what it is.

Others will chime in here and some are from north of the border where they just live in the cold and play on their Kodiak's.

 

[KodiakAfishyo]

Remember your new Kodiak is not broken in yet and everything is tight. I think you will see improvement once it gets broke in. It also has petroleum based oil in it for break in which thickens the colder it gets. My new Viking has the same motor and it has gotten better. Now with 450 miles on it, starts and runs first try even though it’s been zero to 10 out. It is parked in a pole barn that is insulated and not heated but temperature never drops below 28-30 so that probably helps some.

 

[Wingnut]

Yeah, I've gotta believe that these current "polar vortex" temps are a big part of it all, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt right now. I'm in northern Montana, and it's been as low as 33 below just east of us in recent nights, with 60 below wind chill at times. Ironically, I drove all the way to Colorado in these miserable temps, just to buy this silly little hummer, but you're absolutely right, it's good to keep in mind that it's not even broke-in yet.

 

[CanadianKodiak700]

Every efi atv I've seen in the past few years will usually take 2 tries to start in cold weather.
My 2018 kodiak is a 2 try from about - 5c and colder. Every once in a while, it throws me for a loop a will fire right up on first try. Last week it was - 36c a my kodiak is sitting in an un insulated cargo trailer, so it was still - 36, it just wasn't getting the - 48 wind chill... But the old girl surprised me... Fitst try she started and idled. I let her warm up and then shut her off. Just wanted to give the battery a little action since it hasn't been on a tender in this cold.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Gecko]

Hello
my Kodiak 700SE 2019 always starts on the first time.
Whether at 35 degrees in the shade or at -2 degrees.
Now at -12 degrees I have not tried it.

all the best

 

[RedRocket]

@Wingnut 5-6 attempts to start it is not normal. You will see it commonly mentioned that when cold, first attempt dies but then second attempt, will start and stay running. Your thought to change the spark plug is a good and cheap thing to do and in many cases will resolve similar issues to what you are experiencing. Just make sure and use the recommended plug. If that doesn’t resolve the issue, you may want to try and get it serviced under warranty. There has to be a closer Yamaha dealer to you than down here in CO.

 

[Wingnut]

Thanks for all your responses, folks! I greatly appreciate it!

The obvious consensus here is that 4-5 repeated attempts to start is abnormal at any temperature, and that's clearly what I'm experiencing, so I'm going to have to assume that something is wrong at this point. And not to repeat myself from something I said earlier, but the thing that concerns me most, is that the salesman at the dealer of origin had no real trouble starting it. Two clicks as I recall. Could he have warmed it up, prior to my arrival? Possibly. Do I suspect foul play or anything? No, not at all. It was a very reputable group. However, once he started it, it did run noticeably lean and seemed to sputter a bit. With only 0.7 hours on it, I wasn't overly concerned at the time, and unfortunately, I had no added time or circumstance to diagnose it further, because we loaded it into a trailer (under it's own power), before it even had time to fully warm-up.

Anyway, with much warmer weather coming this next week, I'll be able to answer part B of this equation . . . namely, have the exceedingly cold temps back up here in Montana played a major role? From what others here have said, the answer to that is likely "no". Secondly, could the spark plug or other components in the fuel/ignition system have been fouled or compromised in some way by heavy jostling around inside the trailer, which definitely took place on the long ride home? Yeah, perhaps? It was in-fact a long, bumpy ride.

And lastly, I'm also learning about the existence of aftermarket "tuners", that purportedly enhance the EFI fuel management in such a way as to vastly improve cold weather starting and reduce high engine temps in summer. I added just such a device to my fuel-injected Harley Davidson a few years back, and it made a world of difference.

So, if after warmer weather arrives, and the spark plug has been replaced, and the motor has had some time to break-in, it continues to misbehave, then perhaps a tuner just might offer me a reasonable fix?

Thanks again to all who have responded.

 

[JimP]

A turner may take care of it and then again it might not.

I would want to get it fixed right before I placed a tuner on it, and unless you purchased a extended warranty you only have 6 months for a dealer to take care of it.

 

[Wingnut]

Yup, that's a good point. Winter is nearly over, so if I were to in-fact add a tuner, I would definitely wait to do so, until the dust has settled (6-months or more).

 

[JimP]

That along with that most dealers and manufactures are chomping at the bit to deny warranty coverage if a tuner has been added.

I am not sure with the Kodiak's programming but on diesel trucks there is a tell tale cookie code that is in the ECM that will let a dealer tech know if anything has been added and then removed that changed the performance of the engine.

 

[Wingnut]

That along with that most dealers and manufactures are chomping at the bit to deny warranty coverage if a tuner has been added.

I am not sure with the Kodiak's programming but on diesel trucks there is a tell tale cookie code that is in the ECM that will let a dealer tech know if anything has been added and then removed that changed the performance of the engine.

Yeah, I'm not sure about that either, but I do have some experience with tuners of this type, and I wouldn't be surprised if it helped my particular problem a great deal.

When I installed the tuner (Fuelpak 3) on my Harley, it more-or-less "required" simultaneous changes to the intake and exhaust in order to function properly. The intake had to be opened-up to higher volume, and the same had to be done with the exhaust, including near 'open' baffles with internal oxygen sensors in the header and both pipes. Without those changes, the 103 cubic inch motor was literally choking to death . . . very tough to start, wouldn't stay running, idled poorly, sputtered and backfired upon deceleration, and above all, ran blistering hot. ALL of that went away once those three changes were made (tuner, intake, exhaust).

I had a three-year factory warranty on the Harley, and I performed those three changes within a week of purchase. Had to! You simply couldn't run the motor. It was THAT bad. Could (or would) the dealer have seen the tuner influence, had there been a warranty issue? Totally. More importantly, they would have easily seen the overt intake and exhaust changes, but ironically, I was at my local Harley dealership a year or two later, and the Service Manager said that they could not have denied warranty service based upon ANY of those three changes, unless the warranty issue could be directly and specifically linked to those changes. In his words . . . "California legislators and the EPA have no legitimate or enforceable right to jam their emissions and air quality policies down the throats of Montana motorists."

But then, as you've said, Lord only knows how Yamaha would deal with it.

 

[Nomad]

I suppose I should feel lucky mine has started first try (with rare exception) from day one. I'll be replacing mine in the spring with a 2021 model so I hope my starting luck continues.

Edit: at least I will try to replace it then. Tried a few months ago and there were no new machines available. Crazy how covid has brought a crazy uptick in the sales of OHV's with it.

 

[Wingnut]

I suppose I should feel lucky mine has started first try (with rare exception) from day one. I'll be replacing mine in the spring with a 2021 model so I hope my starting luck continues.

Edit: at least I will try to replace it then. Tried a few months ago and there were no new machines available. Crazy how covid has brought a crazy uptick in the sales of OHV's with it.

Well, you've touched on several key points here, and frankly, I don't even know where to begin! I guess I'll start by saying that I shopped for this Kodiak 700 EPS (fall tan with realtree camo trim), daily, across the entire western U.S., literally for MONTHS, and every time I found one, it was either spoken for (a pre-order), or it had sold in a matter of hours after dropping at the dealer. I talked with a dealer here in western Montana one day in early January, and he said that he had just sold one, exactly what I was after, just 12-days earlier, to a guy who drove up from Missouri to get it! Fact!

As a licensed dealer, he had access to an on-line dealer inventory database, so he looked at it for me and identified only three units shown as "available" in the west (one each in Utah, Idaho and Washington), and when I called, all three were either green or orange (which I didn't want), and all three had already been sold. Then, on January 16th, I spoke with a dealer in Colorado, who said . . . "give me your number and if something drops, I'll call you." On February 8th, he phoned, and said that he had just received one. I gave him a deposit on the spot, and drove 900 miles to get it the very next day, in -14 to -22 degrees F temps. All-in-all, it took 5-days, roundtrip. Blizzards, high winds, white-outs, fog, black ice, you name it! And why? Why would I do something so foolish?

Simple. Every single dealer that I spoke with in the weeks leading up to travel, had horror stories about ordering one. Three reputable, large volume dealers here in the west told me that they had multiple buyers (mostly ranchers and the like), who had pre-ordered 2021 and/or 2022 Kodiaks and Grizzlies, and yet, despite having posted sizeable deposits, they were told by their dealers as much as 4-months later, that Yamaha (in Atlanta or wherever?), had abruptly cancelled their pending order, without notice, and without apologies. And THAT, is why I chose to make the ridiculous 2,000 mile trip.

Now, regarding issues with cold starting . . . my 700 EPS is most definitely problematic, and I'll have more to say about that later, but in the last 2-3 days of on-line research, I have encountered literally dozens upon dozens of other Kodiak owners (2016-2021), many from frigid places like Alaska, Toronto, Edmonton or Norway, etc., who have (and are) experiencing the very same thing (i.e., extreme cold with 5-8 cycles of the starter, without the machine starting properly). So yes, in my view, there is most definitely a problem. What is the cause or solution? I'm not quite sure yet. I'm busy researching battery specs (270 cc amps OEM vs. 310 cc amps aftermarket, etc.), but my gut tells me that the problem lies more in the EFI (electronic fuel injection) system, and the ridiculously lean factory fuel/air mixture (too little fuel). At some point, I envision myself upgrading to a higher (310 cold crank amp) battery, but I firmly believe that it will take an aftermarket (e.g., EHS) tuner module to vastly improve fuel management, and possibly even some intake/exhaust changes to get it truly "right".

Anyway, in closing, this rather lengthy response became a bit verbose, so my apologies there, but I hope it helps you and others here, in your future decisions.

Cheers!

 

[MNhunter86]

On my 2016 I was having the hard start issues when I first bought my machine as well. The dealer had a recall on the Decompression spring on mine as it was the first year of production so they were working the kinks out. I didn't really notice an improvement of start ability after the recall was fixed. What really made a big difference for me was switching to a Rotella T6 5w40 full synthetic oil. It seems like it starts up much easier in the extreme cold like 0F and below.

 

[Wingnut]

Please standby. I'm having some issues responding on this forum, due to unexplained technical difficulties, including unwarranted "Awaiting Moderator Approval" messages.